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We can't afford to ignore what is happening around us. Let me give you an example. It's cold right now in the city
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of Nairobi and yet it's supposed to be a dry month. What's happening? Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Beyond Profit, a
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show that we shall be discussing matters climate change and what exactly is happening to us? Because guess what? You
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might think ah this is not my thing. No, it is. Why? The food that you eat as
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well gets affected and you never know when food prices start going up. Like right now you're complaining about una
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and the likes. Ladies and gentlemen, this is all about climate and right here on beyond the profits, we'll be
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examining what is the journey of SGS, ESGs as the corporates are calling it and what is the progress we are making.
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Are the gatekeepers doing what is meant to be done and I'll be inviting people right here to help us understand policy
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players, people in the industry and people who are really fighting to ensure that we have a safe place to work in and
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to live in. Welcome to Beyond Profits.
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[Music] Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Beyond
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Profit, the first inaugural show right here on Switch TV. And on our conversation today with our guest, we
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shall be talking about climate smart agriculture in Africa. What are the opportunities? What can you learn about
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it? Is it new a new term to you? You're right here in the right place to get to understand our guest today, Harold Mart,
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the country project manager right here in Kenya at Craft. What is Craft? He was going to tell us about it. But first,
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let's take a look at his profile. [Music]
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[Music]
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[Music]
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[Music]
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[Music]
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All Harold, welcome to the show. Thank you. It's glad to have you here. And as you heard from the intro, first of all,
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welcome as our first guest of the show. Thank you. Uh this is a conversation that we really want to endear to people that listen, as
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you go about your businesses, it's important for you to as well think about the environment in which you operate,
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which I know you're a big advocate of. Absolutely. Right. So maybe people will be asking what is
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craft? What is all this about? And maybe you could start by an introduction of who you are and what you are doing as
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craft. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe I I'll take Thank you. I take a step back because I would want to
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start with the organization I work for. Yes. So, as I said, my name is Harold Mate. I'm the country project manager for
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Craft. And Craft is a project of SNV Netherlands. Yeah. And SNV Netherlands is a development
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organization. Uh we have been here for 55 years now in Kenya. Yeah. Um and CRAFT is a climate change
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focused project that is dealing with um uh the interventions that are focusing
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on uh uh enabling uh small and medium enterprises and smaller farmers
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to actually um adapt to climate change and we have been discussing.
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Yeah. the you can see and when you look around you can actually notice there are
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variations in weather patterns and rainfall seasons and all that. So how do farmers um andmesmemes and cooperatives
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actually adapt to that environment? So that is what craft is all about. Um the project is implemented in three
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countries um Kenya Uganda and Tanzania but I'll talk more about Kenya. Yes,
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which which is the portfolio that I'm managing. Okay. Wow. I have had you mentioned
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several sectors especially I have had you mentionedmemes as well as organizations. So do you focus on
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training them or what exactly uh goes into the details? So this project is focus is
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multifaceted. Yeah. By one realizing that for you to be sustainable
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you need to engage the private sector. Absolutely. Um and as I said we have been in development um as an
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organization SNV for 55 years in Kenya and of course we have had a lot of learning um as we went along um and
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realizing that the private sector plays a big role and a very central role uh in sustainability of whatever
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intervention that there is and most of our interventions that actually we do uh revolve around the private sector.
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Yes, they are focused on supporting communities to achieve certain goals,
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but we understand that engaging the private sector makes it sustainable. So
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for us is approaching and targeting the small order farmer but realizing for us to be able to
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sustainably do that we have to go through the private sector and create sustainable interventions and solutions
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that the uh the target communities can actually be able to uh plug into um and
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and do whatever is that they they would want to do. That's why you you asked about the small and medium enterprises.
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You heard me talk about cooperatives and then the smaller farmers. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Let's just go to a bit of a
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definition for anybody who could be watching and is asking. These are terminologies that are passing me here and there.
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Let's talk about smart agriculture. Climate smart agriculture. Yeah. What is just that for a mere
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person who's saying okay educate me. So um climate smart agriculture basically is um an approach to
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agriculture. Yeah. that puts puts into focus the various facets that contribute
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to your ability to produce optimally. Yeah. Incognizant of the environment that
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you're in. So when you talk about um a farmer will tell you rainfall
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is no longer reliable. Yeah. Think of it this way. M if farmers were able to actually because
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I know we are able to make at least a prediction that one week or even two
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weeks ahead that probably is going to rain and this is the amount of rain in this region
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as a farmer if I had that information and I know I have crops in the farm probably I would harvest prior
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prior before just make sure that before it rains you're right I have I've made the decision the smart decision to actually
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make an intervention Mhm. So that is what we calling climate smart agriculture. When you talk about crop
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production, what goes into crop production? Most of our farmers sometimes are not used to looking at the soil and
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understanding what the soil is all about. So they not do soil testing. Yeah. They they a farmer will say I want to
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buy fertilizer. They know of course you need to put a compound fertilizer. You need to do uh top dressing with the
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nitrogenous fertilizers. But how much of it? Which ones of them?
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Because you need to know what is lacking in your soil. Sometimes we continue fertilizing acidic soils.
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Well, as I'm supposed to put lime to lower the pH, remember that your
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exactly to to actually not to lower the actually to it up because a low pH of
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below five will be acidic. M so basically is to to say
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um how are we using information to make decisions as farmers and as
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practitioners in the in the agriculture sector. Yeah. So to me that is what I would I would define as climate smart
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agriculture taking cognizant of the ecosystem that you and utilizing optimal
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production practices that are not harmful to your surroundings to the environment
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um and and do not contribute to what we call degradation in one way or the other. Okay.
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So that is the approach and talk about climate smart agriculture. If it's about water use how do you efficiently use your water?
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Do you want to put a drip irrigation for the crop you're producing if it's viable to efficiently use the little water that
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you may have now because you're saying probably the rings have not been enough for the last maybe two three seasons and
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now you're saying whatever water I get the the surface runoff that that could have been otherwise wasted and I harvest
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it put it somewhere in a dam or in a in a in a tank
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and use a drip irrigation to water now my crops and produce so that is cleismat agriculture And that's the approach that
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we want to take with our smaller farmers. Okay. Yeah. Wow. I know I I I'm just building a context
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here and you know you sit in a place where you can see where we are maybe as a country and even Africa in general.
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And in Kenya we keep saying that you know agriculture is the backbone of our economy and all that.
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I know critics would argue about that now because of how things have been advancing. My question to you is this and I know it
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could go way beyond with statistics and all. We don't want to go there. But in your simple definition or explanation,
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what is the current situation right now when it comes to our own here in the country in terms of agriculture and us
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really being sustainable by ourselves? Is it bad? Is it good? How can you say that in a sentence?
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Well, um I I wouldn't want to make um a a conclusive answer to that
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because I I would believe we are um actors who
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are responsible for making those decisions in terms of where we are. But if you look at our food situation
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the last maybe one year, it has not been pretty. We have we have talked about an availability of maze.
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importing food from our neighbors and other places. It tells you we have not
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been able to self sustain in terms of food production and it has a little bit gotten worse.
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Um and probably it also goes with depending on how our because our agriculture is is rainfed. It relies uh
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heavily on rainfall. So whenever we have suboptimal rainfall, we definitely get into the red in terms
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of food availability and we now rely heavily on importation. And by the way,
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even when we have good rain, by the way, we still import a certain percentage of food. So generally we are saying we
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we're still somewhere in the red. We're still somewhere in the red. We need to be sustainable. We need to be to be self sustaining and of course we can put mechanisms to
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to try and see can we be able to get there. I'll call you back another time. We can talk about what I'm seeing in Ethiopia, wheat and all those things.
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Very good progress and we need to get there. So in general, you know, climate smart agriculture is about an integrated approach as you have said it to attain
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sustainable agriculture. So my question uh in the context of Africa, what are the areas we can focus on uh to achieve
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this climate smart agriculture? Are there areas you could specifically put us to? Well, I will talk in context of craft
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and what we are focused on and what you're focused and we are focused on three areas. Yeah. one, we are talking about uh
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investing in technologies and practices at the small order farmer production
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level because we recognize that over 85% of our food is produced actually by smaller
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farmers. Um the second thing is investing in small and medium enterprises. Mhm.
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Again in in Kenya for example over 85% of the food we consume is is is moved by
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small and medium enterprises. And then the question is how do we facilitate these small and medium enterprises to be
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contributors to uh sustainable agriculture, climate smart agriculture and then the policy agenda,
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the enabling environment that whatever that we do or we seek to do
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must be supported by policy because whatever is not supported by policy Yeah. cannot be sustained in the long term.
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Yeah. and and that's why we are working with the with the national government closely with the national government and
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also the county governments because we understand that agriculture in Kenya is actually doiciled at the county level.
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It is a county that actually um works with smaller farmers or in the
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agricultural sector uh and that's the way the constitution has put it. So these actors who are really pertinent to
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agricultural production becomes uh key players. to the issues of policy uh the
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private sectors in the thememes and then the real doers of the of the work the smaller farmers.
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Okay. Yeah. Wow. My goodness. Let me ask you one more question then we can take a break. Let's come back to just the work that you're
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doing as you started from the word go especially on this part of the continent. What are some of the business
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opportunities that can be maximized to address climate change in Africa? Are
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there some that you see? There are numerous. Wow. There are a lot of all the business people that better
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listen. Yes, there are numerous opportunities um and we have been able to demonstrate as
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such with within craft the project we're implementing. Yeah. And there has been a lot of interest
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from the private sector to participate yeah in in in these interventions. Um one is that
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when when you look at food Yeah. food is a is a basic need really. Everybody wants it. Not you don't want
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you need it. You need it actually. Um and if you go for a day without food,
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of course if you unless you're fasting, but even then you will still want to eat. Really? Absolutely. So it is to say that food will always be
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a need and a commodity that people demand for. Yeah. Any time. Mhm.
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Of course, it is shaped by our food habits and cultures. So that we choose
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and cho depends on our culture, our eating
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culture. Um and therein lies now the opportunity. Mhm.
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Um but that opportunity of course need to be matched to the ability to produce these foods.
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Um for example, now we are talking about maze and the question is how do you avail maize
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to consumers because that's people are talking about gali. You're right. Um but also it could also
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be about the slight change of our eating habits and cultures. Yeah.
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So if you look at the small farmer level when you look at businesses that provide support services, it could be inputs, it
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could be uh soil testing uh um services. It could be uh equipment including
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irrigation equipment uh farm tillage equipment. Those are business
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opportunities. But those uh technologies need to be matched to the need
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and the farmer needs to realize what they need. They need first of all to understand this is what I need to to
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help me produce optimally. The second thing is that with themes
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they also realize that they have opportunity in terms of right now we do
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not have enough maze for example so we have to import okay but formemes is it possible to actually
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work with the smaller farmers to produce whatever crop or commodity you need
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and that solves some of your inefficiencies in the value chain the supply chain those are business
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opportunities for youth and and there's a provision of services. For example, under craft, we
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are talking about um the issue of aggregation. So for you to be able to
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move um efficiently, you want to bulk commodities if it's maze, if it's sou.
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Yeah. Can the youth actually be part of the aggregators that can actually offer that service, that's a that's a job
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opportunity. Absolutely. Um if you talk about um provision of training. Yes.
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Mhm. It's it's about the youth also being able now to provide the training to the smaller farmers in terms of what
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they need to do on their farm to become optimal producers. So there are quite a number of opportunities that actually I
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see along um the possibilities should be no there should be no complaints of oh we don't have what just
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go on the ground and study it's part of the you contribute the bit you can and other things also play into
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pro contribute into the job creation. Okay. Wow. We are watching beyond prophets.
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This is it. And I'm telling you, this is the new conversation of where we're headed. We take a short break. We'll be right back.
17:04
[Music]
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Welcome back to Beyond Prophets. And we are saying listen there's need for us to think the future and really taking care
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of our motherland and this is the earth the climate talking matters SDGs talking
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matters ESGs as well and what are we doing and today we have none other than uh Harold Harold Mate who is the country
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project manager at craft here in Kenya and he's just telling us what interventions are they doing especially
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with working with farmers on the ground. Harold, before we went on a break, you were talking to us about opportunities
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that people can maximize and you give several and you said they're numerous. If you missed it, go to part one and you
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can share more later on. But let me get into this other question on how we can lever investments, leverage especially
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investments to everyday farmers to ensure that they have access to climate smart agriculture.
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Yeah. So um uh again for the way we have looked at this under craft Yeah.
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is we want to have farmers invest in in agriculture. Yeah.
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But we we are aware that farmers may not be having access to uh credit for
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example or financial services in such a way that enables them to invest in in their in their farms and
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production systems. Um again at the SM level if you want to invest in
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technologies again um ability to access credit from our financial institutions
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again in the level in the in the eyes of climate smart um agriculture you may not
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really get a product that speaks to that area as such. So our work has been to of course do a
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mapping of the financial sector in Kenya and the products that are available. Yeah. and then match that to small and medium enterprises but also show um the
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opportunities to the financial uh players that there is opportunity actually working with smaller farmers
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within groups and cooperatives and also um and of course for us we have come in
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also with the with the provision of small grants tomemes yeah by understanding that for anme really to
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be able to invest in cl agriculture could be um a tall order in the in the
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sense is that for them they they are fighting to remain afloat and profitable. Yeah. And claims migration may not have been
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their core uh work at the beginning as a business. They didn't they didn't really think about it. So investing in that
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uh through small grants and facilitating some of the actions that we we think are going to actually
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um put them on the path to um looking at climate smart agriculture as part of the solution to
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their challenges especially within the specific value chains. Wow. Yeah. Just walk us through maybe an example or
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two of how everyday farmers in Africa are interacting with these new innovations.
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Yeah. So we of course farmers learn best through demonstrations or by seeing. So if you go to a farmer with a new
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technology um they is the way they used to doing things. So first of all they would look at it
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and not really be sure whether I want to change because it's a risk if you're telling farmers that
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you now need to do minimum tillage. and they are not used to that they'll be wondering what if I do this
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minimum tillage and and my crops fail and they fail what what am I going to do and remember
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is a huge risk for them. Yeah. So one of the things that we have done is to actually uh partner with the
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with the private sector again in terms of setting up demonstration farms. So that we are saying we have these
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technologies technologies can be seed seed varieties that are pest resist tolerant
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disease tolerant um drought resistant resistant. So that can be a technology.
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A technology can be a fertilizer. Yeah. It can be a a crop rotation product. M
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it can be irrigation equipment so you need to test this technology
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and help the farmers learn why should I use this new seed variety. Yeah.
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For example, I was speaking to um farmers in in Nakuru region about
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potato seed. Mhm. And you you might think a potato is you can plant any potato because I mean you
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just put it on the ground and it grows. Yeah. However, if you get what you call cleaning materials
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for potato certified and you plant it, you going to really see a difference.
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One in two aspects. One in terms of the generations that the seed has been recycled. So if you recycle it more,
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it productivity becomes lower. Again, it becomes vulnerable to uh diseases and pest. But if you get clean
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seed that has straight from the the seed multiplication companies or individuals who are doing
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that you actually see a difference. But of course you have to combine the seed and your farm practices including what
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fertilizers you put in. Remember then for you to know what to put in there. Then you need soil testing and I can
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tell you most farmers including myself in the village soil testing was was really is
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not a thing. It's nothing. I I mean I just put my manure. I'm good. I put my manure, I put my compound fertilizer.
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Yeah. After my crop germinate, I put my top dressing. Um maybe I I spray to avoid to to
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mitigate against pests and diseases. And I wait for my harvest and and perhaps I could actually have
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done better. Maybe the fertilizer I'm putting I'm wasting it because it is no longer available to the crop.
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Yeah. But because traditionally I know I need to put fertilizer, I put it. So those are some of the those are some of the
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actions we're telling farmers. We need to change. Yeah. We need to look at this very differently. And because we have
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practitioners who are providing these services, you need to embrace them so that you do it right and you you produce
23:04
optimally. The issue is about optimal production. Mhm. where I do not need to spend money
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putting a fertilizer then I don't spend it or where I need to put maybe lime to reduce acidity
23:17
and so that the fertilizer is available nutrients available to the crop then I do that and my crop now is able to to
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really drive and do better. So those are some of the issues with smaller farmers and generally farmers we are trying to
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inculcate um and ensure that we we we are able to guide them through. Yeah. You know, one of the key things
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that people always say is there are many underlying factors that will affect such
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implementations, such great ideas coming to fruition. Yeah. And really strategically thinking
23:48
through the future as we've said, we don't want to be reacting to things. We want to be very strategic. But you cannot negate the fact that
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there's policy that affects this. And in your opinion, how friendly is the
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policy framework right now as we speak? And maybe the question will be in the continent and its friendliness towards
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sustainable and climate smart agriculture. Yeah, I would say that the for climate
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smart agriculture, yeah, I would say the policy is there. It's there alit new.
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So of course it may not have gone to the permeated to every corner as you would
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want it. Yeah. And also practitioners may have taken time to embrace that but also we we we we always say that and
24:30
I can always say that we are always looking for what can we do better even
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in terms of policy. For example, if we understand there are issues that are
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going to help um small order farmers or aggression practitioners really do
24:45
better. Yeah. Why not put policies that actually supports that? And we have started by
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doing that with the national government has really done the the the Kenya national uh climate smart strategy.
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Okay. But then the domestication or the cascading of that to the county levels to the various counties. So the county
25:03
is not put into context within the county because you can imagine a county like
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Kitoui or Mueni that is in a drier area may not do the same things as a county
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in the wet zones around Mount Kenya, Kimu maybe
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and others they could be having slightly different ways of dealing with climate climate change. Yeah.
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However, it is recognizing that we need to do that at the county level. As I said, agile county government
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and we right now I think there's a big push and in the right direction in terms
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of ensuring that we actually uh recognize that climate change is actually affecting the way we able to
25:48
produce food in this country. And then the other thing of course is to push the private sector to embrace that and work
25:55
with the private sector to say if I'm importing an equipment that is deemed to be answering the issue of climate
26:01
change, can the government be able to maybe uh make some concessions in terms of tax?
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You're right. Um and that now that makes it more available or cheaper and farmers can actually be able to
26:12
adopt it. You're right. You're talking about daminers for example. um and are
26:18
we able to say well we going to um reduce maybe the tax on it make it affordable so that farmers can harvest
26:25
water and use that water to actually grow crops. So there could be some subtle concessions in in in here and
26:32
there that we can actually try and embrace. Yeah. If it's other auxiliary services uh soil
26:39
testing, how do we make them available? How do we make them affordable
26:44
to our farmers so that they make the right decisions in terms of what to plant. The other thing I want to talk about is
26:50
availability and re reliability of weather information. Go ahead. As I mentioned, if I'm a farmer
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and right right now, we have actually been told that the rains for this season have are going to be depressed.
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Yeah. So, as a farmer now, I'm thinking what am I supposed to do? All right. How much of this rain am I
27:09
going to get? When am I going to get it? So that I make a decision on the crop to
27:14
plant because now if I was thinking about planting maze, maybe now I need to be having second thoughts
27:20
something different. If it's about variety, probably I would be looking at a variety that is a little bit not water
27:27
intensive or can withstand some some periods of dry weather
27:32
um or is short maturity period so that by the time the rains are come and go my crop is mature.
27:38
Yeah. So weather information that is reliable and uh timely provided because I need to
27:45
get that information prior to planting the crop so that I make a decision on what to plant. Yeah. I also need to know how long is it
27:53
going to be this rain, how much of it, when it is is it going to start and stop. So those that kind of investing in
28:00
such kind of mechanisms is really going to help us um and and and then make that
28:05
information accessible to farmers and usable. I can provide information
28:10
like now say the rain will be depressed. But what does that mean? What does it mean? And there is a lot of variability between
28:16
the areas. It could be raining here. By the time I get to CBD, it's a complete different story. That
28:22
kind of variation need to be put into consideration so that we inform our farmers reliably
28:28
um and and and enable them to actually make the right decisions. Wow. Yeah. Wow. Maybe finally we can talk
28:34
about your organization and how you are, you know, really encompassing the youth because
28:39
we they're the majority and we really want to see them embrace especially
28:45
agriculture because there's a time there was a complaint these guys are not thinking about it at all. Yeah. What are you doing?
28:50
Yeah. So um for sure and I know there's been a huge discussion around youth and agriculture
28:56
and the conversation has been that our the average age of a farmer in Kenya I think 59 or 60 years old I think around
29:03
there and the question has been how do we expect a 60 year person to be the one to actually anchor um
29:10
food production. Well, I think that person is experienced. They know a lot. So, they have a lot of
29:17
knowledge and I think they rightly there. But we are saying we need to the younger generation to embrace food production.
29:23
Yeah. Uh for the younger generation, of course, they want to embrace what is profitable, what is of course again also
29:29
they want quick wins, you know. Um and for us we are focused on looking at
29:35
leadership and governance within the institutions that actually are dealing we are dealing with especially the cooperatives
29:41
and we what we have encouraged the cooperatives that we working with is to embrace youth
29:48
within their leadership and so that as decisions are being made youth are able to actually contribute
29:54
and also shape the decisions that are being made. Yeah. For example, you'd think about a youth in this country may not be having
30:01
a title to a piece of land, but we expect them to be farmers. So, probably they need talk to their father
30:08
or their parents, get a small piece of land allocated to them just to do production. Yeah.
30:13
Um the other thing of course is um for them to look at opportunities within those valleys that I mentioned. What
30:20
what what um job opportunities or income generating activities can they actually
30:25
be able to do? I talked about aggregation of commodities whether it is things like potato and actually we are
30:31
focusing on four var four four we have potato we have beans uh we have sum and
30:37
we have green grams so in terms of if you're dealing with a with a bulk of ta
30:43
that person would want to have not 20 kgs not 100 probably they want to look
30:48
for five tons and above so when they come with a truck they can fill their truck it is economical it is efficient for
30:54
them then Can the youth actually be able to grab these opportunities? Okay, do
30:59
aggregation. If you're talking about provision of spraying services for example through protection, can the
31:05
youth actually be we are training them to actually now be the service providers. We said we have this farmer who is 60
31:11
years old probably they may not be able to do all these things but the youth can offer the service. Okay.
31:16
So those are the opportunities we identifying for the youth to be able to now plug in okay and and and provide um these services
31:23
and it's a win-win situation. You provide the the job for the youth and your crop and or your food is
31:29
produced. Absolutely. Exactly. Absolutely. Yeah. Maybe the part in short that I would want you to do is um looking straight
31:35
this camera talk to a youth and a farmer who saying wow this is probably new to
31:43
me or maybe I'm in the journey of embracing this or how can I engage with craft uh what would be your partnership
31:50
first of all to them straight on. Yeah. Yeah. So um for me I would say um there are opportunities in the agricultural
31:56
sector. Yeah. And a lot of them Mhm. within craft um we are working
32:01
regionally in a number of about 15 counties and we working also with the specific
32:07
cooperatives and small and medium enterprises. Yeah. And for me is to say if we can identify
32:15
some of the opportunities that can be plugged into um the the already ongoing work.
32:20
Yeah. For example in Takanidi and meu there's production of green grams so
32:25
yeah uh in bomet we are working on beans um in Nandi in Marquet we are focusing
32:33
on potato and in auru so there are quite a number of opportunities within those regions
32:40
um and I know as as far as busier actually sum so there are quite a number of
32:45
opportunities there and if you're able to plug into the thememes and cooperatives that you're already working in.
32:51
Then you become a farmer that is linked to these uh entities. Then you have an opportunity to actually
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provide a service. You have the opportunity to actually um be a producer and be able to market your your your
33:04
your produce from from the market. Wow. Yeah. Thank you so much Harold for coming and really opening up our eyes to
33:11
smart agriculture, climate smart agriculture. By the way, on my screen you can see COP 27 uh which will be held
33:16
in Egypt uh this coming uh month and uh you know ideally is to let you know that
33:24
we will be having this conversations about this whole thing about climate STGS ESGs what are you doing going down
33:30
to exactly what you can be doing like today we are focused on you the farmer so please make sure to tune in to engage
33:37
with us and we really appreciate your company my name is Mina she and see you next time same time same place right
33:43
here for another different conversation right here on be profits. Thank you.